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8/11/2009 3:46:37 PM | | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009www.revitinfo.comEntry Type: Issue Category: Rendering Subcategory: Render Time | Repost: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 (Source Link) Supposedly, the render time in Revit 2010 is about 25% faster than in 2009. However, I also read somewhere that for the same level of detail on the same building on the same image, MAX will render up to average of 3 to 4 times faster than Revit.
Why the difference? Obviously, the Render engines are similiar now since they are both essentially Mental Ray and use the same material types, etc. but the MAX engine must still be more robust.
See the following link for more information:
http://www.rand.com/imaginit/1/rss/viewitem.asp?feedid=BLOGS_VISUAL_ALL&guid=669 ____________________ |  | | |
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8/17/2009 10:42:26 AM | | mertens3d 21 Posts Joined 07/06/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
(i didn't look at the link you provided)
....but one difference is that in Max you can distribute your rendering among several different computers. If you are using Vray or Mental Ray it's done with buckets or natively in max you can break the rendering into strips.
I've only done a minimal amount of rendering on revit, but a lot on max. I can say that I can't imagine doing any kind of production rendering in Revit. It's way too slow. |
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9/8/2009 2:49:27 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: mertens3d
Thanks for the post! Yeah, MAX rendering is definetely way fast than in Revit. The benefit of doing it in Revit is that there is nothing lost in translation. The render settings are very simple and you get really good quality results when the Render setting is on HIGH. See the attached image (I didn't really spend any time messing with this, just doing the modeling and assigning materials...it could be better).
The problem is that it takes a long time, and as you already mentioned, if you are doing any kind of large production renders or animations, you really can't do it in Revit.
Thanks again for the post and for contributing to the community. If you have any other thoughts, feel free to start a new post! _______________
superJMuser  | Attachments Summary List InteriorRender.jpg; Click the attachment icon to left to view & download the Attachments. Please note that it is suggested to use Internet Explorer when downloading attachments to ensure proper file type translation |
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7/20/2009 5:41:02 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: mertens3d
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superJMuser |
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8/18/2009 10:00:27 AM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: mertens3d
I had an interesting idea, but I haven't tried it yet...You could feasibly set up 2 instances of Revit (I have a machine that has 2 quad core zeon processors in it, and 16 GB of RAM), and open the same file (detached from central or 2 different locals or whatever). In this file, you would have already duplicated the same camera view, and in one, you render the bottom half with region, and in the other, you render the top half with region. Then you just compose them in Photoshop. This could also be done if you are in an office where you might have multiple PCs available to you.
Just a thought. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any thoughts about this. _______________
superJMuser |
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8/23/2009 6:11:48 PM | | mertens3d 21 Posts Joined 07/06/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
I'd thought about something similar. I haven't looked to see how much is exposed in their api.I've only written 4.3 external revit apps..
anyway, i don't know why a pseudo render farm couldn't be developed. Each comp on the farm would render out a portion of the image (similar to what you describe...except it'd be automated). Then there's probably an with activeX module that could be used to combine the portions back together.
I can't be the first to have thought of this, so don't be suprised if someone doesn't come up with a working version. |
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9/9/2009 12:10:12 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: mertens3d
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superJMuser Last Edit on:5/6/2010 9:50:48 AM |
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9/21/2009 6:23:06 PM | | W.K.M. 9 Posts Joined 01/26/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
Wow, thanks for that post - that weblink was a good read~! |
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12/30/2009 9:06:18 AM | | tecton3d 1 Posts Joined 12/30/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
is anyone else doing this? I am with good results thus far... defintely speeds up the revit rendering process since revit can only use 1 of the two quadcore processors installed on my machine. It's still insanely slow, even at moderate resolutions and settings.
once i get up to speed with the revit > max translation via .FBX... i will kiss the revit pain in the ass rendering goodbye forever!
prost! |
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12/30/2009 11:06:05 AM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: tecton3d
Thanks for the reply...yah, we tend to use Revit for renderings when it's just supposed to a quick, single image. We have gotten pretty good results using just Revit, but depending on the scene, it can take a while. But, sometimes, this is actually more worth it than moving to MAX, especially if you are just looking for a few images at high quality, you can use the batch renderer utility. Just check your materials, colors, and lighting conditions on low quality, before you leave for the day, then set up the batch renderer to run all the images you want over night...usually works fine.
However, I have also used the FBX export, and it works really well. The main problem with the MAX workflow is that there are a lot of settings for mental ray you need to be familiar with to maximize your rendering quality vs. time. If you aren't familiar with these settings already, there is a pretty good learning curve associated.
Anybody else have any workflows they would like to share? _______________
superJMuser |
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3/29/2010 12:17:19 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
So it looks as though Revit 2011 will have the 4 core rendering limit removed. I think basically, that there is no limit, as long as it's on one machine...So go out and get you a new 8K (or more) workstation with 24 GB of RAM and 2 hexa or octo-core processors with hyperthreading enabled for an awesome 12-16 core/24-32 Vcore Revit Rendering Machine (or 3DSmax for that matter)!!!
That is really good knews for those that have new Core i7 cpus or dual CPU workstations...it's unfortunate though, that it doesn't look like there is support for farm rendering... _______________
superJMuser Last Edit on:3/29/2010 12:21:58 PM |
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3/29/2010 11:52:00 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
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superJMuser |
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4/29/2010 9:40:13 AM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
This is somewhat unrelated, but the new Realistic Visual Styles in Revit 2011 and option for ambient occlusion in views is really a nice addition to the visualization toolset of Revit. Check out the entire feature list here:
Revit 2011 Platform and Architectural New Features _______________
superJMuser |
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5/14/2010 1:55:08 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
Okay, so the attached images are something I have been experiementing with in Revit 2011. Have a look and let me know what you think (you have to be a registered, logged in user to view attachments, but don't worry, registration is free, you just need to make sure and put in a valid email address, because you'll have to verify your email, so check your spam box when you are looking for the verification email after you register).
There is definetely a place for photorealism, and it can be done with just Revit, but I like these types of images A LOT! I just think they lend themselves to be more artistic, less "Final" looking, and you can spend less time on it because your goal isn't 100% photorealism...you are really going for accurated color, lighting, and just to put accross the design and concept of what the space might feel like.
So anyway, Here's what I did:
1) Set up my model with all the materials, lights, etc. that I wanted
2) Rendered the view to a specific resolution on High Settings (Rendered.jpg)
3) Saved out a Hidden Line view and set sillouette edges on to a thick line (Hidden Line.jpg)
4) Saved out a Shaded View with Ambient Occlusion Turned On (Shaded.jpg)
5) Used Photoshop to:
a) Put the Rendered Image in at 100% opacity.
b) Put the Shaded image in at like 50% opacity.
c) Put the Hidden Line.jpg in at 100% opacity on top layer after I had removed all the white (so it's transparent leaving only the bold black lines)
d) Got the Final Image (Final Photoshoped Image.jpg) _______________
superJMuser  | Attachments Summary List Final Photoshoped Rendering.jpg;Hidden Line with Sillouette Edges.jpg;Rendered.jpg;shaded.jpg; Click the attachment icon to left to view & download the Attachments. Please note that it is suggested to use Internet Explorer when downloading attachments to ensure proper file type translation |
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8/15/2010 11:52:53 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: tecton3d
has anyone figured any helpful hints out on this related to Revit/MAX 2011 workflows? I am just curious how the consolidated material library has affected workflows (better or worse) and if there are any new featues being implemented by anyone that would be helping worfklows... _______________
superJMuser |
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8/16/2010 4:17:01 PM | | diesellam 5 Posts Joined 08/16/2010 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
That's an interesting workflow.
So you rendered the model in Revit Architecture, NOT 3d Max Design 2011, right? |
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8/16/2010 4:19:02 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: diesellam
correct, I did everything in Revit and then Photoshop...no MAX there...especially with 2011 Revit, if you have a fast machine, just let the single image render over night...no need to take extra time to take it into max, unless you are rendering multiple stills (in iteration) or doing animation...
That's just my opinion...and in the case that I didn't want super photo realistic... _______________
superJMuser |
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8/16/2010 4:35:32 PM | | diesellam 5 Posts Joined 08/16/2010 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
So how long did it take to render that image in Revit 2011 overnight?
This is a good comparision in my opinion:
The difference of the rendering time between Revit 2011 vs. 3d Studio Max 2011
If it's significantly faster in Max, then the next question is how long does it take to export the model as FBX from Revit 2011 to Max Design 2011? (with all of right materials applied and light fixtures) before the rendering begins in Max Design 2011)
If it's significntly faster in Max, which rendering engine are we talking about? (VRay, Mental Ray, etc.)
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8/16/2010 4:43:44 PM | | superJMuser 433 Posts Joined 08/19/2009 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: diesellam
Right, yeah, good points...I rendered at very high resolution because I was printing it on a 22x34 sheet. So my render on my quad core 2.4 ghz machine with 4 gb of RAM took I think like 8 hours (all night).
To me, the benefit is that I sleep at night anyways, so it really isn't a fair tradeoff unless you are doing a lot of images or trying to finish it before 5 pm same day. What I mean is, it might take you a few hours to run some tests, and get all the settings in MAX (mental ray) right before rendering, unless you do it all the time and you know what your doing...and that's a low estimate because I have spent countless hours on one image testing different settings to see what I want. That 2 hours is 2 hours I can sleep and just let Revit render it, even though the render time would most certainly be fast in MAX, all things equal.
So for me, rendering mental ray in Revit for something that doesn't need/want to be super photorealistic is the best option.
Again, if you wanted to use Vray, or something like that, add a bunch of realism to the image, do an animation etc, than exporting out to MAX is definetely the way to go.
Hope that makes sense _______________
superJMuser |
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8/16/2010 4:53:45 PM | | diesellam 5 Posts Joined 08/16/2010 | Re: Revit 2010 Render Time vs. 3dsMax Design 2010 In Response To: superJMuser
I totally agree.
It depends on what type of presentation you are talking about. Your method is kind of "quick and dirty" way for something that doesn't require super photorealism and yet it's realistic enough to be used in presentation.
I always believe there's no one solution to get things done. It's all about what's best suited in that particular scenario. As long as the method is time efficient and maximize the efficiency, I'll always choose that option.
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